In an ideal situation both patients could recieve a bed in the ICU. However since this is not the case, one patient has to be chosen. I would say the patient who is in the worst condition should recieve the bed, but seeing as how they are in the same exact condition, this is not feasible either. I believe the 71 year old man should recieve the bed, but not because I am discriminating against drug use, but because drug use can be managed with other treatments. Even though both patients are in equally critical conditions, perhaps the drug effects in the body can be managed, and then care for the 22 year old could be easier than for the 71 year old who may have more debilitating effects due to increased age. Concerning the second question, I hate to say it but the only fair way if both are in equally critical condition, is the one who came first deserves the bed, unless like stated before someone's condition can be managed outside of ICU care.
It is hard to stay objective in this case. Personally I would give Jeffery O, the 71 yr old the bed. He took care of himself before the accident which tells me that he cares for himself and his life. Even though Donald R. is so young and has barely lived, he put himself in this situation by doing drugs. This tells me that he doesn't respect or care for himself, so why should I choose to save him when he wont appreciate it and probably start using drugs at the first opportunity he can. I know that this is a very pessimistic view, and it might be horrible to make such a choice because maybe Donald would change if given the chance. If the situations would be reversed I feel like the choice would be a no brainer. If Jeffery got to the hospital an hour before then I think that he should get the bed. To be objective it should be first come first served if they are both just as critical. I hope that I never have to make a decision like this but if so I hope that I can be objective on who has the most likelihood to recover.
The bed goes to the sickest. The other can go to another floor or be transferred to another hospital. Age and cause of injury does not matter when it comes to treatment.
Just as Katie stated, the bed should go to the sickest. In the health care field the idea of whether one deserves a bed is not an issue because ultimately you want the best treatment for every patient regardless of their lifestyle. The first patient in would have been the patient I would have chosen because both are in need of an ICU bed. The other should be sent to another floor or hospital. Pertaining to the second question, I am stuck. You cannot discriminate on care for one patient over the other. If there was no way of determining who was sicker or at a greater risk for health care problems then I would chose the elderly man because even if their medical conditions are comparable now, the effects of aging may have a greater risk on his treatment and recovery because of several reasons.
In normal circumstances, the bed should go to the sickest, as others have said, however in this situation, the case states that they are in equally critical condition. I would chose the 71 year old man to get the bed because his age could indicate further issues with his treatment. Ideally, the 22 year old would be transferred to another hospital, and then would be admitted to a forced rehab facility upon return of his health. If the elderly man was instead 22, I would still give him the bed because he stands the best shot of return to health since it is obvious that he cares for his body, unlike the drug user. If the 22 year old was instead injured by a car accident, I would give the bed to the 71 year old since he has the most risk of complications due to his age. Ideally the other would be transferred to a different hospital and a bed there.
I think by weighing the two conditions, Jeffrey should get the bed in the ICU since his condition is a serious emergency that needs to be adhered to before he losses a lot of blood which might finally render him death or even serious conditions considering his age. I think the answer is not based on their ages but the level of their conditions. In the case of Donald, he is a drug addict and has been consuming those drugs for long period and compared to someone who has been involved in an intensive and terrible accident, he should be considered second when deciding who to take the ICU bed. This is a tough decision to make if they both were having the same critical conditions. I think still the 71 year old would be given the bed since he might experience serious complications considering his age. I think they should find a way to also care for the 22 year old because may be its a really detrimental condition that can cause him his life. I agree with Marion that if they can transfer him to another ICU in a near by hospital that would be great.
This situation is hard for me to make a decision. I agree with Christy in saying that Jeffrey O should recieve the bed becuase he took care of himself before the accident. Like Marion stated they are both in the same critical condition so it is hard to decide which patient is the sickest. I don't think it would be any different for me if there ages were any different becuase of my reasoning. If Donald R was not a drug addict I would have a hard time. I would hope that in that situation they would decide who needed ICU the most and then find another bed for the other patient.
I believe the ICU bed should go to Donald R. the 22yr old because he has more of a chance to survive and turn his life around. If the men switched ages I would give the bed to Jeffery O. the 22yr old in this situation. However, the first person there should get the first bed if in equal conditions/states.
As others have already mentioned, the bed should be given to the one who is in a more critical state, but in this case it states that they are equal in what kind of state thaey are in. In this case if i had to choose, I would say that the bed needs to go to the 77 year old, Jeffrey O. I feel like the 22 year old could be sent to a different floor to be treated because of his drug use. As some people above stated that they would pick the 22 year old to have the bed first because they have an easier chance to survive, i don't agree with that so much. Because just because they are younger doesn't mean that he is in a better health than an older person. SO we really need to look at the health status before they came into the hospital and i believe that the 77year old was in a better condition than the 22 year old. So I believe the 77 year old should get the bed and the hospital can find another bed for the 22 year old drug addict.
Since they are both equally critical the most objective way to decide would be whose condition could be better managed by another floor until another bed opened up or they could be transferred to another hospital. In this case I would say Jeffery gets the bed because there is more risk associated with his age and with the type of situation causing his critical condition. Car crashes can leave people with internal bleeding, brain trauma, and other complications that another specialty within the hospital most likely could not handle as well as the ICU team could. On the other hand with Donald the cause of his critical condition is likely to have more predictable complications and condition associated with it that other units could handle adequately. This way both people received care. If one had arrived earlier then they would be the obvious choice for the bed unless the other’s condition was more critical.
I feel the same way as Melissa. I would give the bed to the car crash victim. He is an elderly man whose injuries may warrant more and intensive care due to his age. His body will take longer and need more attention in order to recover. In addition, he may be bleeding internally or have broken bones so he does have a few things that may make him the sickest although the case says they are equal. I think that another unit would be able to care for the younger patient. As stated before, his conditions are more predictable and probably won't need as much attention for any lengthy time. If the ages were switched, the car crash victim should still get the bed. There are more vital injuries that could be sustained in a car crash. I do not say this because of one patient being a drug addict, but the fact that he is so far down that path to where he needs intensive care, that even through rehab he will more than likely revert back to that lifestyle.
I believe, as well as katie and lindsay, that the bed should go to the sickest or in more critical situation. The effects of drug use may be able to be managed on a different unit. However, the age and the reason for seeking medical attention should not be a factor in determining treatment. As a student nurse, I have to remember to provide non-judgmental, unbiased care; so I cannot base my decision on drug use vs. healthy lifestyle.
Like most of my classmate, I too agree that the patient in the worst health should be able to have the bed first. I would give the bed to the When reading the article, I put aside that Donald took abuse of his body and used drugs prior to the accident because as doctors and nurses, aren’t you supposed to want to help both and no matter age or substance they previously taken. You wouldn’t say you can’t treat a patient who overdoses on a drug, you would want to help them in a dire situation in their lives, then again, you may have more than one bed open. I would also have to look at which person has the better outcome. Since Donald did use drugs that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be treated, but maybe another floor would be better for him.
Brittany Buechel: I believe the 71 year old who was in the motor vehicle accident should be given the ICU bed. Once Donald, the 22 year-old is stable in the ED or on another floor, he can be transferred to another hospital. Most of the time there is more than just one hospital in a county. It wouldn't matter to me, if donald was the 71 year old or jeffrey the 22 year old, I would still put the motor accident patient in the ICU bed. Drugs can be managed in the ED, and most of the time the ED is capable of being able to manage those type of patients. But, the reality of all of this is, the sickest patient who can not be managed in the ED should receive the bed. An hour difference is a big difference in the hospital. If one of the patient's were there an hour ahead of time then they should get the bed. Why would the patient be sitting around for an hour anyways if there was one room open? Then the patient that comes in an hour later should be the one transferred or managed on another unit.
I think Jeffrey O should be the patient who gets the ICU bed. As everyone stated above the sickest should get the bed and Donald R can be managed on another floor. Age would not make a difference in treatment. I would still put the automobile accident in ICU. The person who was at the hospital an hour earlier should get the bed especially after an hour. The other patient would have to be transferred.
Since both patients are in equally critical situations, it is hard to determine who should get a bed. Like others have said, hopefully the 22 year old could get sent to another floor or hospital to get adequate treatment for his drug problem. I would like the 71 year old who got into an accident get the bed because he didn't do it to himself.
Ideally both should recieve a bed. If there are none available then they should evauluate if any of the other occupants are ready for release to make room for incomming patients. If none are available I would see if we could transfer one to a nearby hospital's ICU unit. I personally would not send one away to let die to I would try to find some room in our ICU in another's or somewhere else in the hospital. It is not ethical to restrict care of any type especially in a cris situation.
How do you measure the worth of a life? that is the first thought that came to my mind. How do you tell the family of the younger guy that he is not worthy of a bed because of his drugs. I agree with Sara, both should receive a bed ideally. If i was in the family with the 22 year old and they said that the other guy was there first and got the bed, I would be mad. But in the reverse situation, I would be happy to know that my family member was there first and got it. Regardless, someone will be hurt, and someone will possibly die. Every effort needs to be made to save them both. Maybe someone else can be moved out of ICU and to a regular room.
Like most people have said, treatment should be based on immediate need. If only one bed is available, the person more desperately in need of treatment should receive it. Seeing as they are equally critical, I feel that the older man should receive treatment first. Car accident victims deserve ICU treatment over overdose patients, because there are alternative methods of treating drug problems.
Age should not be a factor in this case; the severity of condition and the events surrounding the illness or injury are what need to be considered. If their ages had been reversed, I still think the car accident victim should take precedence over the drug addict.
If one person had arrived at the hospital an hour before the other, the bed should go to the person who arrived first.
In an ideal situation both patients could recieve a bed in the ICU. However since this is not the case, one patient has to be chosen. I would say the patient who is in the worst condition should recieve the bed, but seeing as how they are in the same exact condition, this is not feasible either. I believe the 71 year old man should recieve the bed, but not because I am discriminating against drug use, but because drug use can be managed with other treatments. Even though both patients are in equally critical conditions, perhaps the drug effects in the body can be managed, and then care for the 22 year old could be easier than for the 71 year old who may have more debilitating effects due to increased age. Concerning the second question, I hate to say it but the only fair way if both are in equally critical condition, is the one who came first deserves the bed, unless like stated before someone's condition can be managed outside of ICU care.
ReplyDeleteIt is hard to stay objective in this case. Personally I would give Jeffery O, the 71 yr old the bed. He took care of himself before the accident which tells me that he cares for himself and his life. Even though Donald R. is so young and has barely lived, he put himself in this situation by doing drugs. This tells me that he doesn't respect or care for himself, so why should I choose to save him when he wont appreciate it and probably start using drugs at the first opportunity he can. I know that this is a very pessimistic view, and it might be horrible to make such a choice because maybe Donald would change if given the chance. If the situations would be reversed I feel like the choice would be a no brainer. If Jeffery got to the hospital an hour before then I think that he should get the bed. To be objective it should be first come first served if they are both just as critical. I hope that I never have to make a decision like this but if so I hope that I can be objective on who has the most likelihood to recover.
ReplyDeleteThe bed goes to the sickest. The other can go to another floor or be transferred to another hospital. Age and cause of injury does not matter when it comes to treatment.
ReplyDeleteJust as Katie stated, the bed should go to the sickest. In the health care field the idea of whether one deserves a bed is not an issue because ultimately you want the best treatment for every patient regardless of their lifestyle. The first patient in would have been the patient I would have chosen because both are in need of an ICU bed. The other should be sent to another floor or hospital. Pertaining to the second question, I am stuck. You cannot discriminate on care for one patient over the other. If there was no way of determining who was sicker or at a greater risk for health care problems then I would chose the elderly man because even if their medical conditions are comparable now, the effects of aging may have a greater risk on his treatment and recovery because of several reasons.
ReplyDeleteIn normal circumstances, the bed should go to the sickest, as others have said, however in this situation, the case states that they are in equally critical condition. I would chose the 71 year old man to get the bed because his age could indicate further issues with his treatment. Ideally, the 22 year old would be transferred to another hospital, and then would be admitted to a forced rehab facility upon return of his health.
ReplyDeleteIf the elderly man was instead 22, I would still give him the bed because he stands the best shot of return to health since it is obvious that he cares for his body, unlike the drug user.
If the 22 year old was instead injured by a car accident, I would give the bed to the 71 year old since he has the most risk of complications due to his age. Ideally the other would be transferred to a different hospital and a bed there.
I think by weighing the two conditions, Jeffrey should get the bed in the ICU since his condition is a serious emergency that needs to be adhered to before he losses a lot of blood which might finally render him death or even serious conditions considering his age. I think the answer is not based on their ages but the level of their conditions. In the case of Donald, he is a drug addict and has been consuming those drugs for long period and compared to someone who has been involved in an intensive and terrible accident, he should be considered second when deciding who to take the ICU bed. This is a tough decision to make if they both were having the same critical conditions. I think still the 71 year old would be given the bed since he might experience serious complications considering his age. I think they should find a way to also care for the 22 year old because may be its a really detrimental condition that can cause him his life. I agree with Marion that if they can transfer him to another ICU in a near by hospital that would be great.
ReplyDeleteThis situation is hard for me to make a decision. I agree with Christy in saying that Jeffrey O should recieve the bed becuase he took care of himself before the accident. Like Marion stated they are both in the same critical condition so it is hard to decide which patient is the sickest. I don't think it would be any different for me if there ages were any different becuase of my reasoning. If Donald R was not a drug addict I would have a hard time. I would hope that in that situation they would decide who needed ICU the most and then find another bed for the other patient.
ReplyDeleteI believe the ICU bed should go to Donald R. the 22yr old because he has more of a chance to survive and turn his life around. If the men switched ages I would give the bed to Jeffery O. the 22yr old in this situation. However, the first person there should get the first bed if in equal conditions/states.
ReplyDeleteAs others have already mentioned, the bed should be given to the one who is in a more critical state, but in this case it states that they are equal in what kind of state thaey are in. In this case if i had to choose, I would say that the bed needs to go to the 77 year old, Jeffrey O. I feel like the 22 year old could be sent to a different floor to be treated because of his drug use. As some people above stated that they would pick the 22 year old to have the bed first because they have an easier chance to survive, i don't agree with that so much. Because just because they are younger doesn't mean that he is in a better health than an older person. SO we really need to look at the health status before they came into the hospital and i believe that the 77year old was in a better condition than the 22 year old. So I believe the 77 year old should get the bed and the hospital can find another bed for the 22 year old drug addict.
ReplyDeleteSince they are both equally critical the most objective way to decide would be whose condition could be better managed by another floor until another bed opened up or they could be transferred to another hospital. In this case I would say Jeffery gets the bed because there is more risk associated with his age and with the type of situation causing his critical condition. Car crashes can leave people with internal bleeding, brain trauma, and other complications that another specialty within the hospital most likely could not handle as well as the ICU team could. On the other hand with Donald the cause of his critical condition is likely to have more predictable complications and condition associated with it that other units could handle adequately. This way both people received care. If one had arrived earlier then they would be the obvious choice for the bed unless the other’s condition was more critical.
ReplyDeleteI feel the same way as Melissa. I would give the bed to the car crash victim. He is an elderly man whose injuries may warrant more and intensive care due to his age. His body will take longer and need more attention in order to recover. In addition, he may be bleeding internally or have broken bones so he does have a few things that may make him the sickest although the case says they are equal. I think that another unit would be able to care for the younger patient. As stated before, his conditions are more predictable and probably won't need as much attention for any lengthy time. If the ages were switched, the car crash victim should still get the bed. There are more vital injuries that could be sustained in a car crash. I do not say this because of one patient being a drug addict, but the fact that he is so far down that path to where he needs intensive care, that even through rehab he will more than likely revert back to that lifestyle.
ReplyDeleteI believe, as well as katie and lindsay, that the bed should go to the sickest or in more critical situation. The effects of drug use may be able to be managed on a different unit. However, the age and the reason for seeking medical attention should not be a factor in determining treatment. As a student nurse, I have to remember to provide non-judgmental, unbiased care; so I cannot base my decision on drug use vs. healthy lifestyle.
ReplyDeleteLike most of my classmate, I too agree that the patient in the worst health should be able to have the bed first. I would give the bed to the When reading the article, I put aside that Donald took abuse of his body and used drugs prior to the accident because as doctors and nurses, aren’t you supposed to want to help both and no matter age or substance they previously taken. You wouldn’t say you can’t treat a patient who overdoses on a drug, you would want to help them in a dire situation in their lives, then again, you may have more than one bed open. I would also have to look at which person has the better outcome. Since Donald did use drugs that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be treated, but maybe another floor would be better for him.
ReplyDeleteBrittany Buechel: I believe the 71 year old who was in the motor vehicle accident should be given the ICU bed. Once Donald, the 22 year-old is stable in the ED or on another floor, he can be transferred to another hospital. Most of the time there is more than just one hospital in a county. It wouldn't matter to me, if donald was the 71 year old or jeffrey the 22 year old, I would still put the motor accident patient in the ICU bed. Drugs can be managed in the ED, and most of the time the ED is capable of being able to manage those type of patients. But, the reality of all of this is, the sickest patient who can not be managed in the ED should receive the bed. An hour difference is a big difference in the hospital. If one of the patient's were there an hour ahead of time then they should get the bed. Why would the patient be sitting around for an hour anyways if there was one room open? Then the patient that comes in an hour later should be the one transferred or managed on another unit.
ReplyDeleteI think Jeffrey O should be the patient who gets the ICU bed. As everyone stated above the sickest should get the bed and Donald R can be managed on another floor. Age would not make a difference in treatment. I would still put the automobile accident in ICU. The person who was at the hospital an hour earlier should get the bed especially after an hour. The other patient would have to be transferred.
ReplyDeleteSince both patients are in equally critical situations, it is hard to determine who should get a bed. Like others have said, hopefully the 22 year old could get sent to another floor or hospital to get adequate treatment for his drug problem. I would like the 71 year old who got into an accident get the bed because he didn't do it to himself.
ReplyDeleteIdeally both should recieve a bed. If there are none available then they should evauluate if any of the other occupants are ready for release to make room for incomming patients. If none are available I would see if we could transfer one to a nearby hospital's ICU unit. I personally would not send one away to let die to I would try to find some room in our ICU in another's or somewhere else in the hospital. It is not ethical to restrict care of any type especially in a cris situation.
ReplyDeleteHow do you measure the worth of a life? that is the first thought that came to my mind. How do you tell the family of the younger guy that he is not worthy of a bed because of his drugs. I agree with Sara, both should receive a bed ideally. If i was in the family with the 22 year old and they said that the other guy was there first and got the bed, I would be mad. But in the reverse situation, I would be happy to know that my family member was there first and got it. Regardless, someone will be hurt, and someone will possibly die. Every effort needs to be made to save them both. Maybe someone else can be moved out of ICU and to a regular room.
ReplyDeleteLike most people have said, treatment should be based on immediate need. If only one bed is available, the person more desperately in need of treatment should receive it. Seeing as they are equally critical, I feel that the older man should receive treatment first. Car accident victims deserve ICU treatment over overdose patients, because there are alternative methods of treating drug problems.
ReplyDeleteAge should not be a factor in this case; the severity of condition and the events surrounding the illness or injury are what need to be considered. If their ages had been reversed, I still think the car accident victim should take precedence over the drug addict.
If one person had arrived at the hospital an hour before the other, the bed should go to the person who arrived first.